This is NOT an April fools joke. (I wish it was)
Unfortunately it is very real and my question to you is very real too. What do you do? Does anybody have an idea?
We had a closing late last night, it was a courtesy closing where the title company out of Texas hired a notary here in Florida to do the closing. All was signed and done and I stressed the point that the closing papers have to get back to the lender that night and even gave her all the lender contact info again. She promised to do this as soon as she gets back to the office (her house) Well since 7 am this morning everybody is going crazy the closing papers never made it back to the lender. I called her and she gave me a bla bla bla answer but promised to do it ASAP.
So, now , 13 hours later, it is 8 pm and nobody can find her, she does not answer her phone and the closing papers are still "lost"
Any suggestions? Every idea is appreciated.
Update after reading 80 something comments
Thanks so much for all your suggestions, I learned a lot.
below is the whole story and again I did NOT make this up.
http://www.southbeachesflorida.com/post/1014744/in-referance-to-my-last-post-here-on-ar
Have a nice day, unless you already have other plans.
Anne
Call the company in Texas and dump it in their lap. If they picked the notary, they need to fix it.
The title company hired a company called sunset signings to send the notary
Both of them plus listing agent plus plus lender plus me - we are all trying to find her
NOTHING
Well, I guess it just depends. In most States, it's illegal for notaries to run off with closing papers, especially if they're under age. But in some States like West Virginia and Tennessee, it's quite common....
I guess she is an independent contractor so there is no company to call? Certainly you should be able to report her behavior to the local jurisdication that approved her notary application. At least they might pull her seal. Hopefully nothing bad happened to her.
I would put that temporary closer out of business. It is sad that the company didn't do some research who they hired.
Oh Rich I wish I had your sense of humor. My buyer is not in a good mood, It was a bank owned property, we are out of contract and will not get an extension and can not proof that we actually closed !?
Cindy, the listing agent also had the concern that something bad might have happened to her, but she did NOT fax the paperwork back as promised last night and when I talked to her early this morning she was just doing fine. . . . . So, honestly I think she is just in hiding for whatever strange reason
Russ, I hate courtesy closings unfortunately with a lot of short sales and bank owned properties it happens way too often.
If she's close by, I'd go knock on her door. She's not done her job, not returned calls and she's leaving too many people hanging on wondering what's going on.
A quick search of her phone number or the tax records will find her.
OMG! Rich! Shame on you! (I swear I didn't laugh... OK. That's a lie.) B
Seriously though, I've never had a notary do a closing for me. They're always done by the title company (they're all notaries) or an attorney. But I know how serious the lenders are going to be about this. What is the lender saying? And who do you file a complaint with, against a notary? I know a lady who used to be a notary, and lost hernotary license, for not checking the ID of a signatary, even though she knew him! He was just being a jerk because he had buyers' remorese. He had to keep the house, but she lost her notary license.
Craig, trust me I WAS READY to go find her, but nobody has an address. I was lucky to have her phone number because she had a question that I promised to research and call her back on.
Lisa, everybody makes mistakes and things happen, and just because you have one bad day, you should not loose your job. But in this case, I really think she should loose her license. Whatever goes wrong, at least communicate and try to fix the problem.
Anne - That is not a good way for the notary to do business. How hard could it be to fax over some paperwork. I hope you have a good outcome at the end.
http://notaries.dos.state.fl.us/not001.html
This link will provide info such as her address and bonding agency. The bonding agency can help convince her to do her job and provide information on how to file a claim if your client has suffered monetary damage such as late closing fees due to her negligence.
I would bew very upset. That is crazy. I wish you the best and hope you have a great night.
I would not use this company again if possiable.
Put a Bounty on her head.
Wow! That is tough! I hope you will let us all know what happens! -Erika
Anonymouse comment #14 is on the right track.
You can also find a person's home by the phone number. It may be a little harder if it is a cell phone. But, a court summons should find her soon enough.
I can't even imagine your frustration. Calling the bonding company is a great idea, but how do you find out who the bonding company is?
I'm quite sure this lady must have run into an emergency somehow, somewhere. I know it doesn't make it sound easier. We all think that closing papers are the most important thing in the world...and they are... Unless she was in an accident, her child was in an accident. When major things happen, all else goes out the window.
I kind of like the bounty idea I have to say
Thank you to comment #14
I will check it out first thing in the morning, this might actually get us somewhere.
Marlene, I never had to deal with a situation like this, so all your suggestions are very helpful. Hopefully I will be able to get a hold of "Sunset signatures" (that is the company that was hired by the Title company to send a notary) and they must have more information and license # etc. on her.
Well, let me say this before I call it a night. I have learned a great lesson from all of this. Do not even trust a notary that is send by the Title company. Next time I will be smarter and get her address, license number and ask him or her to send me a confirmation or cc of the e mail or fax to the lender, or maybe just sit next to her while she submits it.
Hope I will have a positive update for you tomorrow.
Notary Rotary:
http://www.notaryrotary.com/forums/searchresults.asp?id=&smsg=&requestid=04011848001&code=13760C435F3D2D7D75CD8E62B61987BB&forumid=1AAA00000003&display=0&format=threaded&forumname=General+Discussion&description=The+most+recent+50+search+results+for+%3Cb%3Etopics%3C%2Fb%3E+containing+the+phrase+%3Cb%3E%22sunset+signings%22%3C%2Fb%3E.&keyword1=sunset%20signings&msgnbr=&keyword2=&startdate=&enddate=&author=sunset%20signi&optauthor=0&seldisplay=0
Try searching for your missing Notary by name there as well...
That is one crazy story! I used to be a Notary, but decided there is too much at risk these days with all the identity thefts.
So, what do you supose she could do with the papers? Could she bleach the signature and put someone elses signature on it? Do you supose the bank had another buyer for the property at a higher price? Was there a transfer of money involved in those docs? Bad deal! I would call the police and at least file a report as those docs are a contract. if they are missing, they are stolen.
All that information is confidential and I would be concerned for the buyers. Identity theft is a big thing and I would really be concerned for my buyer's.
I see no problem in asking a Notary for proof of identification as it should be and kept in the buyer's/seller's file.
Wow -- missing notary w/closing papers!! Here in Hendersonville NC we've never used Notary's to do closings (to my knowledge anyway) as closings are genrally done with an attorney.
You have our sympathy and I can only imagine how upset the buyers have to be! Hopefully this will come to a happy conclusion.
Sue of Robin and Sue
We don't use then here either, either a title company or attorney.
Anne - Sounds like quite a predicament. Please follow-up and let us know what happened! Thanks!
Mary
Anne...
Seems like an issue for some higher-ups somewhere!
Laughing at Rihs's comment...I think you left out Arkansas ;-0
Anne, You said you were researching a question for her. Is it possible she made some terrible mistake with the papers and is trying to correct it? Whatever it is I wish you good luck.
Anne, what a nightmare for everyone concerned. I hope for all it is resolved first thing this am, if something horrible happened to the lady, say an injured child and emergency, Lord forbid, at least a profuse apology .. if its negligence, I would see about having her license suspended.
Have a lawyer contact her. Somehow, around here, when an attorney calls about a problem it gets addressed.
Anne...
Any luck yet?
TLW...ROAR!
Try not to use an all-inclusive brush to tar an industry of an estimated 40,000. A couple of tips on this:
1. If the title agent used "Sunset Signings, LLC" out of CA (a "signing service", which is a party that brokers out signing assignments), then shame on them. Sunset's ill reputation goes back to 2007, posted on Notary Rotary for all members to view. Any signing agent worth their salt knows to more wisely choose who they will work for.
2. If the signing agent in question has an ounce of business savvy, they'll be easy to find. Start just by Googling their name & location - if they're in any of the major data-bases, that'll pull it up.
3. While this is an ALMOST unforgivable act (not completing the signing, essentially), I'm reminded of the time I somersaulted down a flight of stairs on my way to a closing, breaking some parts that were dear to me and definitely putting the closing way on the back-burner. If we assume for this person's sake that it was NOT some horrid event ...
4....Then the title agent who used Sunset Signings should be held as first-responsible party, for failing to do a little due-diligence in who & how they select signing agents. There is such little barrier-to-entry in this line of work - and there are huge dollars at work luring in many with ideas of 'easy money'. Still, with a little bit of due-diligence, it's not impossible to find true professionals with exceptional skills & industry knowledge. Just like RE agents, we NEED to be highly visible, we WANT to be 'found'. Those of us with a lot of credentialing certainly don't hide it.
The business of 'brokering' out signings ...puts the title agent one more arm's length from the selection. As part of the larger industry, RE Agents might not have a good understanding of how that world turns - but title agents pay a fair sum (of the buyer's money) to these signing service (brokers), who OFTEN keep the larger portion, and pay paltry fees to those signing agents who will accept it. Now ...who would accept it? Those who are new, those who have little understanding or knowledge, those who lack much business sense. It becomes NOT about finding 'the best', but finding the cheapest.
[sigh] Thanks for letting me rant a bit, but I had to make an attempt to narrow the scope of these comments.
Good morning everybody.
No updates yet. Documents as well as notary are still missing or went on an unexpected vacation or might be part of a crime sene,
Left her and her boss messages already this morning. Now we all hope that she dropped off the paperwork at UPS yesterday and the lender - title company will receive them in a few hours.
I guess plan B would be to get the papers signed again at a Title company and get the new set to the lender. But than again, we can not back date them and if we go for a new set all the numbers would have to be redone. At the same time we do not know if the lender will agree to it because ( as one of you suspected) there is a much higher offer on the table.
Anne, sorry to hear about this and yet very appreciative for you sharing it with us on AR. It will help me to stay away from that. I will be watching for your post of the outcome.
wow Anne I have never done a closing with a Notary and now looking at your experience I am not certain if I ever will. Keep us posted on what has happened and if you find her.
Bettina
Renee
I do appreciate your input and the back ground information. I am sorry if it sounded like I was putting all the notaries "in one pot" I just get very frustrated when someone calls himself or herself a professional and then does not do her job. I have had nothing but good experiences with our local title companies for many years and they do a great job. If this deal hadn't been so difficult to put together in the first place I might not be this upset but than again I have to say (hopefully nothing bad happened to her ) but there is NO reason not to communicate with people. I understand that things happen but just pick up the phone and explain.
I will try to give you guys a run down on the whole situation so you understand why we closed with a notary we did not know instead of a title company.
"At the same time we do not know if the lender will agree to it because ( as one of you suspected) there is a much higher offer on the table."
If she took them, I guess you could get a duplicate set and sign with someone else, but I've never heard of this at all. Has she turned up? Have the docs turned up at the lender? How did you make out with the bonding company with regard to filing a claim against her policy for financial damages your client may have suffered?
I am so sorry you're going through this but it is a very intruiging post!
I would think that the lady was in an accident. Are she did do her job and the papers are lost.
Either way it doesn't help you or your buyers. Please keep us updated on this interesting frustrating event.
Ok, Thanks for all your comment, I felt like I owe you the whole story.
It is a long post and it will blow your mind, so have a drink and relax before you read it.
http://www.southbeachesflorida.com/post/1014744/in-referance-to-my-last-post-here-on-ar
Morning Anna, Hopefully by now this has been resolved. If not, I would simply " Google " her address ( or name ) and go to her house to get some answers. And that would only be the beginning !
Well, this is blog should get an award for the strangest problem ever to happen to a REALTOR. I can't wait to hear the next chapter. Please keep us posted.
Marian, this is another twist to the whole story. Who's problem is it?
I mean we all know the notary "messed up" but in the end if the deal falls apart WHO's problem is it?
The title company? That would be my guess. But what kind of recourse whould the seller or buyer or lender have?
OK. Latest update
Noraty is still missing BUT we could track the package via UPS and it is on it's way !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The nightmare is nearly over.
Anne, I am glad that you have a tracking! I can't believe people just couldn't communicate with you! I had this happen once. The notary put the docs in her trunk and then was in some kind of accident and was in the hospital for 3 days with the docs in the trunk. Or so the story went.
Looks like you are almost there. Hopefully the docs will arrive via UPS, Anne.
Now the next question is, what to do with the notary's body when you eventually find her. :)
The signer could have had a wreck or got sick and be in the hospital -- it happens.
This story is unbelievable, a bit funny, and scary all at the same time. Hope all is well now and you have the docs in your hand.
Wow, that is pretty much all you can say to that. Maybe the title company in Texas has done business what this person before and trusted her to do her job. Or maybe not, They could of found her anywhere and didnt do there research. This is exactly why we dont hire notary closers. We go to our closing no matter where they are. We specialize is Reverse Mortgages and some notary closers never even heard of them and have no idea how to close them but will attempt and mess it all up! But I do wish you the best and hope everything went smoothly after they receive the package back! Good Luck!
Scary story! At least you were able to track the package. But, it was VERY unprofessional of the notary NOT to notify you with that information. How are can it be to pick up a phone or return a call. She had to know this was causing major stress and concern.
I have been following this post sense yesterday and have been wondering how it would turn out. I will be watching for further updates to this situation.
This post you have started is a gold mine of possible series of future posts that I hope and encourage you to take advantage of opportunity. There are quite a few spin off topics. I will also be following (subscribing) you're Blog to see what write next.
I second what Ray said. You've had people across the country on pins and needles!
Gosh, lots of good ideas and some that I would want to try but wouldnt! LOL
Good luck with everything. I would probably never her use her again unless she has a really good reason. She may have been an accident or lots of other things could have happened. Its just so sad that problems like this arrise when closing. One of my last closings took 30 days longer than expected due to the underwriter, so............
Hang in there!
Take Care & Fly High In '09
Anne this is Incredible! I'm glad the UPS package was located and on the way before I arrived to read about it....I'll tune back in for an update and hope all parties to the transaction work toward the same goal to get it closed. whew what an experience! - btw - which side of the transaction choose Title?
Guess she ran off into the sunset.
Sorry, I know, not funny.
Good luck dealing with this one.
I would definitely contact the Secretary of State to file a complain. Good Luck!
This sounds crazy! We don't use notaries here. It has to be an attorney.
Wow hope it all works out, but I believe the time frame is still when it was notarized so legally maybe you're ok.
Hi Anne~ What a horrible experience! I am glad the papers are on their way. Keep us informed. I hope it all works out ok.....
This is an amazing story! I would check with the National Notary Association for her contact information, bond, and E&O insurance.
All joking aside...this is a serious issue that should be addressed with the Secretary of State so this never happens again. Sadly, this person gives all notary's a bad name. Unless there was some life or death tragedy that kept her from performing her duties.
I did not have time to read all the comments so I hope this bad situation was resolved without a monetary penalty to the buyer.
The borrowers will probably have to re-sign again! Bummer....
Join my new AR group and post your blog at http://activerain.com/groups/virtualoffice
Regina P. Brown
As both a Realtor and a Notary, after reading about this I'll NEVER participate in an off-site signing either as an Agent or as a Notary.
I hope that you're doing ok and that you never have to relive anything like this!
Update
So, the package finally arrived at the Title company via UPS (notary still missing) Title company looked at the package, of course notary had forgotten to get some signatures for FHA loan from agents. So listing agent and me had to sign additional closing papers. Title company send paperwork to lender late yesterday and lender funded money. I really hope it is over now and my buyer actually legaly owns the home BUT check this whole situation raises more questions as to
WHEN do you wn the house? Keep in mind, last day of contract was tuesday. Buyer signed papers on tuesday but seller did not get his money till late Thursday night.
I just wrote a post with more questions http://www.southbeachesflorida.com/post/1016278/when-do-you-own-your-home-
So, what is your opinion? Did the buyer own the house when he signed the paperwork r not?
http://activerain.com/blogsview/1016278/When-do-you-own-your-home
Regina, that is what I thought, but one twist to all of this was that the appraisal came in much higher that our agreed upon sale price and the seller had a cash buyer waiting in line. So could the seller have backed out?
Jo - Ann, if I only had a choice !!!
To everybody that thought something bad had happened to her. The answer is no, just didn't do her job, did no think is was so important to fax or e mail paperwork back. Simply ignorant. AND she switched her phone off because it was inconvenient that all these people called and ask for the paperwork.
Charles, that is what I hope for but keep in mind, the lender could not fund the money, so the seller did not get his money in time, it was actually released late last night . So did the buyer actually owe the house after signing? Imagine you are the seller, would you consider the home sold because the buyer signed a bunch of paperwork? If I was the seller I would NOT consider the house sold till I had my money.
Erica, you guess was wrong, she simply did not do her job, went home went to bed, did all kinds of things the next day, never faxed or e mailed it back but sometime on Wednesday dropped it od at UPS. She KNEW the paperwork had to get back to Title company the same night.
Teresa, I am on the buyer's side. He would have been totally stressed out if he knew about all this, but luckily he went to Disney world right after closing and had his phone off.
Ray, Corey and Eric, YES, this is the scary part. This whole situation has raised so many questions.
The buyers usually sign all papers and walks away from the closing table thinking they now own the house, but do they?
What determines ownership transfer? Usually it all happens pretty much at the same time.
buyer signs closing papers and mortgage paper, seller signs deed, title company which already has buyer's deposit and lenders funds in escrow writes checks to every body, buyer takes possession of home. DEAL IS DONE
But in my case, all paperwork is lost and seller did not get funds until two days after official closing.
I hope I am wrong but we were out of contract on Tuesday night, so could the seller have backed out because he did not get his money?
Barb, she wanted to know if I also worked in another county because her mother was looking for a Realtor, so I promised to find her a referral. But you thought was on target, when the paperwork finally appeared some signatures were missing.
To all of you
check this out, some very interesting answers.
http://activerain.com/blogsview/1016278/When-do-you-own-your-home
Gosh -- quite a subject and tale of what can happen along the way to getting to a Closing!! I think the bottom line, AFTER much stress on buyers and agents part there was a happy ending for the Buyers?
Regards,
Sue of Robin and Sue